( I want to congratulate Chris Woodbury for trying hard. )

Here is some help. My opinion is that since ‘Aryan’ is a prohibited term for northern europeans who are descendants of the Yamna, most of this discussion is an exercise in trying to define ‘white’ as a substitute for ‘Descendants of the Yamna and their Culture’.

Meanwhile, others want to claim membership in white civilization or ancestry for various signal reasons – and some to escape the pejorative association with the steppe and desert peoples.

Early advancements in the early bronze age (before the 1177 collapse) were made by those west, south, and east of the black sea, the levant, and mesopotamia. Its unclear whether the Yamna expansion was influential on the bronze age collapse or not. It’s logical but we have little evidence. They did combine horse wheel and bronze.

I think the significant advancements in the ancient european world (the bronze age recovery, after the bronze age dark age), and in the modern european world (after the abrahamic dark age caused by imposition of christianity by eastern rome, and by the imposition of islam under the arab expansions) were made by southern migrations of populations from north and west of the black sea, and likely in the river sections of the north sea.

And I think this culture and its genetic advantages are what northern european (unmixed) ‘whites’ wish to preserve. (celtic-scandianvian-germanic-north-and-east slavic, above the alps and the black sea, and west of the urals.

I think the broader definition of ‘whites’ includes those with west black sea, and anatolian admixture (mediterraneans and southern slavs).

I think the broader definition of ‘whites’ includes all of christendom (caucuses and anatolians but not turks)

I think there is an attempt by levantines and Mesopotamians to identify as ‘white’ to escape negative connotations of being Semites. This is largely because the arabs destroyed eastern roman, levantine and mesopotamian civilizations – as well as egyptian and north african civilizations, and made the economic and cultural recovery of the western empire impossible.

I don’t think anyone considers north and south semites ‘white’ nor the various step people that arose from the anatolian, mesopotamian iranian (black haired fairer skinned) peoples.

I mean, I can tell the difference between the regional celts, a Frank, A high, middle, and low german, a southern and northern scandinavian and an englishman, and almost all of us can tell the difference between the various slavs (they are more aquiline and have smaller heads). We are inclusive with our greek and southern italian and sardinian cousins. Largely for cultural reasons.

The dirty secret of world history is ‘the steppe and desert people are pretty bad, and the europeans, east asians, indians, and africans have been fighting off the desert and steppe people for thousands of years.

Here is something from one people who know a great deal more than I do about this subject.

That depends on your definition of White; it’s as easy as that.

The truth is that anyone who can read a PCA-plot will know that Europe is genetically divided into two different categories and that is North and South European, with the latter being less homogenous and closer to the Middle East in terms of FST-distance, which strengthens the idea that Southern Europe has received gene flow from West Asia. This becomes more evident when you see that Sardinians do not express this pattern (pulling toward the Middle East) despite having no Steppe ancestry.

With that being said, you should take a look at the plot I attached by Lazaridis et al (2016) which showcases the intra-European division. Ignore the non-European clusters. What you will see is that Chris’ theory of Italy and Spain being supposedly half-White is null and void, although admittedly there is South-North cline within Italy (since Italy is the country with the highest genetic diversity in Europe).

The point is that even the northern part of Italy is well within the Southern European genetic continuum. The only country which has a legitimate North Europe-South Europe crossover cline is France.